What It Really Takes to Hire Top Talent: A Myth-Busting Episode

Executive recruiters and headhunters bring several advantages, even for companies with strong internal talent acquisition teams:

• Confidentiality: Headhunters manage discreet searches, especially for senior roles or sensitive organizational changes, ensuring both client and candidate privacy.
• Access to Passive Talent: Headhunters specialize in identifying and approaching candidates who aren’t actively job-seeking but are open to the right opportunity.
• Market Insight and Benchmarking: By engaging with a broad talent pool across industries, headhunters can benchmark internal candidates against the external market, ensuring objective hiring decisions.
• Brand Influence: Headhunters often have established reputations that lend credibility to the roles they present, attracting high-caliber talent.

The key to attracting passive talent lies in creating and communicating an authentic, tailored value proposition:

• Understand Unique Differentiators: Go beyond generic claims like “growth opportunities” or “flexibility” to highlight what truly sets your company apart.
• Craft a Story: Headhunters can help frame your opportunity in a way that resonates with candidates’ career goals and aspirations.
• Build Relationships: Passive candidates often need time to be convinced of the move. Presenting a vision of growth and alignment with their long-term goals is crucial.
• Be Transparent: Address risks or misconceptions about the role, especially if your company is undergoing challenges like a brand turnaround or restructuring.

Maintaining confidentiality is a cornerstone of effective headhunting:

• Intermediary Role: Headhunters act as a buffer, keeping client and candidate identities private until the right time.
• Secure Processes: Some searches require candidates to sign NDAs before engaging.
• Market Perception Management: Headhunters can reframe a company’s narrative to counteract any negative perceptions in the market, ensuring sensitive roles are filled without unnecessary exposure.
• Controlled Messaging: From first contact to final interviews, headhunters control how information is presented to maintain discretion on both sides.

[00:00:00] Debbie Goodman: Welcome to On Work and Revolution, where we talk about what’s shaking up in the world of work. I’m your host, Debbie Goodman. I’m CEO of Jack Hammer Global, a global group of executive search and leadership coaching companies. We help find great leaders and we help develop them into even better ones. My main mission with all of my work is to help companies and leaders to create amazing workplaces where people and ideas flourish and thrive. And one of the core strategies for creating amazing workplaces is to hire great leaders, which Jack Hammer Global has been doing for years, exclusively using a proactive headhunting approach. Meaning, we do not advertise job openings, instead we identify and then we approach top candidates for the roles we’re looking to fill.

So just to be clear, we’re headhunters and today we’re going to be talking about what headhunters do and don’t do. We’re going to clear up any myths or confusion that employers or job seekers may have about the role of headhunters. We’re going to go maybe into the dark underbelly of the life of a headhunter.

Well, kind of, maybe we’ll see how this goes. To join me for this conversation is my partner in crime, Advaita Naidoo. Advaita is MD of Jack Hammer Africa. And for those of you who don’t know, Jack Hammer Africa is the largest executive search boutique in Africa. We’ve got on the ground presence in all the main markets.

Advaita is based in Cape Town, I’m in LA. Um, together we’re here to talk all things headhunting. So welcome Advaita.

[00:01:37] Advaita Naidoo: Hi.

[00:01:38] Debbie Goodman: So we’re going to clear up some misconceptions about our role as headhunters and we want to do this because still today, I certainly, I encounter employers and job seekers who just seem to have like no real idea about what we actually do.

 So maybe we can just call this like the myth busters episode.

[00:01:59] Advaita Naidoo: Yes, please. I am looking forward to myth busting. The questions come at us all the time.

[00:02:05] Debbie Goodman: Okay, great. Let’s start with myth number one, which is that we have this magical database that is filled with people who are looking for jobs. Companies can just call us and then we’ve got this ready-made list of candidates who are standing in line waiting for the job. So that’s the myth.

[00:02:26] Advaita Naidoo: So spoiler alert, that’s not really how it works. I think at its core, our role as headhunters is search. It’s really right there in the name, executive search. So we don’t just have a list of candidates sitting around twiddling their thumbs, waiting for company X to call them. In fact, almost all of our candidates, the ones who we end up placing are already employed and they’re busy being effective at their current jobs. They’re not just looking for any job, they’re happy where they are. They’re open to opportunities if the right one comes along. And I mean, frankly, a client shouldn’t be happy with just any candidate who’s on a database and waiting for a call. 

The other thing about when it comes time to, placing candidates, yes, there are candidates who are available for a role, but it also takes time to find the right fit. I think finding the right candidate is not as simple as flipping a switch. It involves a really rigorous and meticulous process of screening.

So we spend hours and hours sifting through profiles, conducting interviews, assessing skills to ensure we’re presenting the best candidates to our clients for their particular needs. And I think that’s really the important thing. We’re like Yenta the village matchmaker. We understand the candidate’s personality, their aspirations, and then think about how they’d fit within a company’s culture. And this level of detail really demands time and effort and unpacking and creating a holistic picture of each candidate beyond their CV and beyond their just, you know, their profile in the database.

[00:03:52] Debbie Goodman: Oh, I love the Yenta the matchmaker analogy. I’m going to use that the next time a client calls and says, Hey, I’m going to be in town next week. Why don’t you just have some candidates lined up for me to interview? Cause believe it or not that, well, you would believe it because it happens to both of us. That still happens.

We’ll get a client email or call somebody who says, I’m looking for somebody for X senior executive role. I’d like to interview next week. And I’m kind of like, clearly there’s been a misunderstanding about how this whole process works. okay, so that was myth number one busted. All right.

The next one is that we are a transactional CV machine. Like you send us a job spec, we’ll send you some CVs and good to go. And I think this kind of alludes to the first question, the first myth that we spoke about. But, if that’s what a company is expecting, a bunch of ready-made CV’s that are just going to magically appear in the inboxes with the perfect candidates, there’s a real misunderstanding about what it takes to find the right fit. And the one thing that I do know some companies do is that they do have, you know, candidates that they kind of recycle. They’ve got a list of say two or three, like really great people who are available to be shopped around to different opportunities and they kind of appear on every shortlist.

To be clear, we don’t do that, but the other bit is around the making the fit piece. So I really want to drill into that because it’s so seldom that we could ever have a, well, we presented a shortlist of a CFO, for example, which is a pretty generic job title, right? Or a CMO chief marketing officer or something like that, for one company and then be able to like cut and paste, and produce the same candidates for another company. I mean, how often does that happen?

[00:05:49] Advaita Naidoo: I think almost never, and I think to the point about the recycling, I think, you know, obviously we’re very environmentally conscious, but so we don’t, but we don’t recycle candidates. We recycle paper and plastic, but I think, a question like that really commoditizes people and, yes, people have skills and there are certain core technical skills that could match, but employers want to and should believe that they have a unique organization. So if your organization is unique, why would you want somebody who could just easily fit into any organization? You want somebody who’s going to elevate your company’s offering in a way that’s unique to your company. So you shouldn’t want somebody who could easily go and work at one of your competitors. And so, understanding what that is means investing the time and understand the market, identify the talent who might not be actively looking for a new role, uncovering those hidden gems, as we said, who are currently employed and happy in their job and testing for whether they’re going to fit in your organization.

[00:06:48] Debbie Goodman: I want to add another piece to this, which is the message that we craft as headhunters, cause let’s get back to what we do and don’t do. But part of what our job is, is to hear the brief from the client, the company that’s hiring, and then to put that in a package that we feel is going to really attract the top talent. Because sometimes, well always, we’ll ask our clients, what are the unique differentiators here? What are the unique selling points, the opportunities about this job? And they’ll trot out a bunch of like, you know, stock standard, oh, there’s growth opportunities. And this is such a great place to work and it’s flexible, you know. That’s fine, but that’s just like table stakes. We need to actually put this in a compelling package and to craft that and then to match that with great talent. There’s an artistry to that So there’s nothing transactional about that piece of the job.

[00:07:49] Advaita Naidoo: There really isn’t. So there’s the crafting of the message, which we can uncover something so nuanced in that employee value proposition that they may not have thought of themselves because it might be par for the course within their own organization. And they might not actually realize what an attractive proposition that makes for an external candidate. So by talking to us, we can help them craft that narrative and help them to sell to external candidates. But then you think about the fact that as we said, those candidates are actually already in jobs that we’re selling to passive candidates. And we’re also currently in a bit of a risk averse market.

People are a little bit more cautious. So, this isn’t just hard work. It requires finesse and strategy because convincing someone to leave their current position for a new opportunity. It’s a big thing. It involves relationship building, understanding their career goals, and again, presenting this enticing vision of what they could achieve in a new role. We have the patience to do this. Not everyone does.

[00:08:49] Debbie Goodman: Patience and tenacity. So here’s actually I mean in a nutshell what we do, is we approach candidates who don’t need a job because they got a job and we present a compelling, hopefully career opportunity to people who have already got a job in the hope that in a relatively short space of time, say somewhere between maybe four to eight weeks, they’re going to go from, no, I’m very happy in my job. I wasn’t looking for a job. I’ve actually already got a job and no thank you, to potentially signing an offer of employment at a new company. So think about that. What does it take to get somebody from that position of they weren’t even looking to ready to sign an offer of employment when they are a very senior candidate, where the stakes are really high.

So that’s really the level of nuance that we talking about. Okay. So that’s number two that we just busted. There isn’t so nothing transactional about that. All right. the market has changed and certainly we’ve seen well, certainly since I’ve been around, which is a long time, In the days when internal talent acquisition was not even a job, I mean, that didn’t exist 20 something years ago. Now, most big companies, most big corporations, and certainly even sometimes smaller ones have got internal talent acquisition professionals who are very good at what they do and very skilled and the thought is, well, if we have this internal talent acquisition team, we never need to work with headhunters.

And what we are seeing is that certainly the many of our clients have internal talent acquisition, but they partner with us for very specific reasons, not because their internal talent teams are not great. They are great, but there’s certain limitations that they have. And so let’s talk through, some of those limitations.

[00:10:44] Advaita Naidoo: So I think it’s important to note, we don’t think we’re a replacement for internal talent acquisition. We just think we could be very good business partners because of the multifaceted nature of recruitment and the advantages that we bring to the table. And the first one is the confidentiality, because when companies are looking to full senior level roles or sensitive positions, discretion is paramount.

So first, we have discrete access to executives and can maintain confidentiality throughout the recruitment process. There may be candidates at competing firms who cannot be approached by an internal talent acquisition person. We are in that intermediary who can filter out people who are on fishing expeditions for information at a competitor and for a candidate, we can manage their brand and their own profile sensitively while they explore before committing and pulling off that Zorro mask to reveal their identities too soon. So this element of confidentiality works both for the client and for the candidate.

[00:11:44] Debbie Goodman: Yeah. There are also times when we get mandated with a search where, there’s a company that perhaps is busy with some kind of turnaround. Maybe it’s a brand turnaround or they’ve gone through a restructure or maybe they’re just not seen as, uh, particularly favourably in the market. And if you have somebody internal, who’s going to be, approaching candidates, top candidates, either competitors or even outside of the industry, who aren’t aware of what’s happening, what’s different, that’s new. Why should they look at an opportunity at a company that they perhaps have a somewhat negative perception about? they will. They’re far more receptive to an intermediary like ourselves versus somebody internal. so that turnaround messaging part of the, of the process is something where we find, clients will approach us because they’ve sometimes just not been able to attract the talent that they want.

 The other, scenario is where there’s something happening in an organization that they need to actually be entirely confidential. They can’t even let the internal people know about what’s happening. So, you know, that’s where our work and our ability to be very discreet. And sometimes we’re having to have candidates sign NDAs because, it is so confidential that once again is another instance where companies would task us with a search. But I think over and above that there’s just, we spend 24/7 building relationships with communities of executives and leaders in different sectors. We build our brand as a top premium executive search firm.

And what that means is that when we make a call or send an email or have any kind of outreach, our brand is associated with, from the recipient, the leader, the executive, who’s once again, not looking for a job with, Oh, we should sit up and listen to this. Okay. This is going to be good.

And so that enables us to bring candidates to the table that our internal talent acquisition may not necessarily have access to just by virtue of the fact that we’ve just got an extended network and very solid relationships in a range of different industries and sectors. So those are just some of the examples we find when, companies, they’ve got internal talent acquisition, they’ve got their own internal recruiters, but they nevertheless will partner with us to add value in those instances too.

[00:14:13] Advaita Naidoo: I actually want to add another one. So often there are internal candidates who are vying for a job and using a search firm can help you benchmark your internal candidates against the external market because internal teams are often very good at assessing current employees but again, by virtue of our networks, we have that broader perspective and ability to evaluate talent against industry standards.

So we can share insights by benchmarking your internal candidates against the external talent pools and making sure that any hiring decisions that may come are really based on solid data points and not subject to internal biases.

[00:14:52] Debbie Goodman: Good one. That internal versus external benchmarking. Okay, let’s move on. I think there’s the myth around, well, headhunters are just there to send out the hook, to catch the fish and then to haul them in and produce them at the table. And I think what is underestimated is the level of skill and mastery in the interviewing process, because interviewing can just be a list of questions. I mean, these days you can get chat GPT to frickin interview your candidates if you want, but interviewing well is such an art. It’s part of the job that I still really love, even though it is so intense and so rigorous.

I remember when I first started working as a recruiter, my interviews were very short. You know, maybe like 30 minutes or so. In fact, I don’t even know how I actually placed candidates back in the day because I just didn’t have the skill and the experience to identify the clues that were coming from the candidate that would give me the insight into Oh, that’s something that I need to probe further. That is something that is opening a door into another layer of questioning. I just, I was level of unconscious incompetence. I didn’t know what I didn’t know. And then as I got more skill and experience in the interviewing part of this, my goodness, my, I mean, if you interview with me, you’re going to be sitting with me for an hour and a half because we are going to go deep.

 And it really is, it’s such a masterful experience to be able to hear what a candidate is answering, is saying to you and then peel back the layers of the onion. And that is time and experience. And when we condense all of that and then present a candidate on the shortlist, they’re getting hours, essentially, because when we’re interviewing, we’re doing like multiple interviews as well.

They’re getting hours of interviewing condensed into some kind of little summary that we will eventually present to our client, the potential employer. Do you want to add something to this?

[00:17:02] Advaita Naidoo: I do. I think if you’ve ever been stuck next to somebody who’s incredibly dull at a dinner party, you know that not everyone can make a conversation. And so interviewing well is the mastery involved in having a good conversation, an information gathering conversation. And knowing how to ask questions that elicit very insightful responses and then very critically being able to adapt based on the flow of the conversation rather than just going through that laundry list of questions that must be answered at all costs and not being responsive to what the interviewee is actually telling you.

[00:17:37] Debbie Goodman: Yeah, I want to add something else to this is, the one thing that we get access to as the intermediary, which companies don’t always find, is we get the candidates real opinion about how they feel about the job opportunity, how they feel about the person that interviewed them, when we’re doing debriefs, et cetera, what their thoughts are about the company, what they’re earning We’re far more likely to get accurate information around salary expectations and what, what needs to be put on the table in order to make an offer stick than a company, if they just approach directly. I also find that you will have a set of questions that you’ll ask in your interview and ask the same question slightly differently, you’re going to get a completely different answer. And you only have access to this kind of range of interviewing skill when this is your daily job, when you do this day in and day out. And it is one of the most underestimated skills that I think people just overlook because let’s face it, It’s not something that’s everybody’s cup of tea. It’s very demanding. It’s a lot of energy. It takes a level of intensity in terms of focus and listening and you know, sometimes you’ll ask a question the candidate will answer and you’ll think to yourself did they actually answer my question or not?

I mean I’ve certainly had instances where I’m in an interview and I’ll have this very compelling candidate who will essentially have me under their thumb and they will be running with the with they’ll be in control of the interview and I’ll get to the end of my time and realize I didn’t freaking get the answers I actually wanted. I didn’t really get what I needed, and then have to go back and redo some of the questions in order to make sure that I’ve understood. I also find that sometimes you’ll have a, and I know I’m digging in deep to this because you can hear I’m quite passionate about it. But so many times I’ve encountered a situation where I’ll have a CV and I’ll think to myself, ah, maybe, maybe not.

I’ll interview the candidate and all of a sudden realize as we’re going through the conversation that they’ve actually got a bunch of experience that’s so relevant to the job that they just didn’t put on their resume because face it, a resume should be no more than two pages. How do you condense an entire career worth of experience into two damn pages? And so unearthing all of that is the magic that arises in an interview.

[00:20:03] Advaita Naidoo: Absolutely. And then just to go back to your point about the subtleties and the nuances, you know, often if a candidate is prevaricating, it will be obvious when they’re talking in circles, but are there other things that come up that you only pick up when you do this all the time, their shift in their body language? Has their tone shifted, the subtleties in their choice of words, and these are all things that will inform our decisions about whether to proceed or not. We may not necessarily present them to a client, but these are all little signals that we’re looking for in every single interview. A candidate is more than just the words on their CV, and they are more than just the words that they’re answering within an interview.

[00:20:39] Debbie Goodman: Exclamation point to that. We’re like these detectives. We’re headhunters and detectives. Sure, multi hatting. Okay. Mythbuster number five, um, that headhunters, as I’ve said before, we’re there to send out the hook. We’re there to find the catch and then haul them in. What is also an overlooked part of our job, Is what happens after we introduce the candidate to the client and they’re now in their courting process. They’re in the interview process and then the thought is the myth is that we disappear. Not so indeed this becomes a vital part of making sure that a candidate that our client is interested in gets all the way through to the offer stage.

And sometimes that can take months because there’s so much happening for our clients and for our candidates. And we know that interview processes at senior leadership levels are very intense. There are many interviews, many rounds and can take fricking forever. And what’s happening. Remember we approached a candidate who was not interested in a job

at the first place. Okay. And then they said, yes, sure. We’ll, we’ll put a hat in. Even when they’ve already got a job, the moment that they put their hand up and said, I’m open to this, all of a sudden they’re dating, okay, they’re dating and they’re interested and they want to be received well, and maybe they’re actually starting to flirt with the idea of maybe getting married again. And so we need to keep that interest alive and we need to make sure that they’re getting feedback and that everybody is still warm and it’s hard to keep things warm when the feedback process from our clients or when the candidate is gone AWOL. When that gets cold, my God, that’s when we are really in like high action mode. I’m going to hand this one back to you because you do a lot of this.

[00:22:46] Advaita Naidoo: So, I think sometimes, knowing that the process hasn’t gone cold, it’s just stalled for a little bit, we come in and we handle what I like to call the no feedback feedback. When the candidates aren’t receiving the information that they want after the interviews, if they’re feeling a little bit neglected or in the dark, we bridge the gap by facilitating the communication, gather the feedback from both sides, relay it, devoid of emotion.

Very important because you know when you’re dating emotions run high and really help the candidates understand where they stand and what they could potentially improve on and also communicate to the client if the candidate has any concerns because you know being that intermediary and keeping those lines of communication open while keeping them separate from each other is actually a very big part of this act of marriage.

[00:23:34] Debbie Goodman: I want to go back to the phrase, no feedback feedback. One of the things that we certainly hear a lot from candidates is that they sometimes feel ghosted by the recruiter and certainly by the prospective employer or client and that may be the case because what’s happening is we are waiting for feedback. We’ve got nothing new to tell the candidate and sometimes weeks can go by. And so, what I far prefer is regular contact just to tell the candidate, we haven’t forgotten about you, you’re still in the running and I’ve just got no feedback. I have heard time and time again that a candidate far prefers that and is going to end up feeling far more favourable about their candidate experience with this process when they have this, no feedback feedback, just the touch point. And so what we’re doing as headhunters is we are, like the little adhesive with all the different steps to make sure that even when weeks are passing by and there’s like nothing new to offer to the candidates, we’re still letting them know what’s happening and we’re still keeping them connected emotionally to this potential new role that they hopefully going to receive an offer to, which brings me to my next point.

[00:24:53] Advaita Naidoo: Nice segue!

[00:24:55] Debbie Goodman: Segue into the damn counteroffer. Oh God. So this is something that everybody hates. We know our clients are aware that they could receive a counteroffer. We are trying to predict this and anticipate it even from the very first interview, but it still happens.

[00:25:14] Advaita Naidoo: Look, it requires very delicate handling. So we work with the candidates through the process and we remind them, if they seem to be considering the counter offer from their current employer, why they were open to talking about this new role in the first place. Yes, money does play a role, but generally it was them looking for a new opportunity, looking for options for growth. There was something that was pulling them in the direction of the new employer, and we help them weigh up the pros and cons of staying versus moving on. Our goal is to help them make an informed decision that aligns with their long-term career aspirations. And obviously if they’ve gone this far down the path, they are more likely to decline the counteroffer. But it’s just that little element of psychology. It’s that unsticking of the process that we can help with rather than letting them navigate that alone.

[00:26:09] Debbie Goodman: I have so much more to say about counteroffers and package negotiations, but, um, are we going to have to move on. I run a tight ship here. There’s a different podcast for that. And we’ve just done a webinar on that. So we’ll put the show notes, the link to the salary negotiations, cause I think that that is just, an entirely separate long conversation all in itself. 

Okay. So I think probably lastly, lastly, the misnomer that headhunters find jobs for people, and I want to be delicate about this because I think this is like the frustrating part of, of candidates, expecting that a headhunter or recruiter of any sort, actually, but particularly headhunters that their job is to find jobs for them when they are ready to look at a new career opportunity.

And, they feel that they could just send a resume and then we would then find them a job. So absolutely let’s be clear if a candidate raises their hand and says I’m in the market I’m actively looking and they happen to be ideal or a good fit for a role that we’re actively searching on or we anticipate we’re about to be searching on in the time frame of all of this happening we’re going to jump on that with immediate effect. That candidate will be getting a call within the hour.

[00:27:38] Advaita Naidoo: Do you know what? I think timing, timing, timing is the recruitment version of location, location, location.

[00:27:43] Debbie Goodman: Yeah, yeah, exactly. But most of the time, I’d say probably 80 to 90 percent of the time when candidates are sending us their resumes, we don’t necessarily have a job that we’re working on at any given moment. I mean, you’re only working on say 30 projects at a time. And every one of those has got its own uniqueness and its own requirements and its own demands in terms of what the client’s looking for. And so I often feel really bad for candidates that send a CV and say, Oh, won’t you have a call? I’d love to have a call with you to talk about my, you know, I’m looking for a job. And then to have to say, well, you know, we don’t really have anything right now, but we’ll keep your resume and we’ll be in touch at some point in the future if something comes up. Because I understand from their perspective, it feels like they just got blown off. If we had to spend our entire day interviewing or spending time with candidates who’ve sent us their resumes, that’s all we would do. And so this is the part where, I just want to manage people’s expectations about how much time we have in the day to allocate to CVs that hit our inbox. Cause it’s very, very little.

[00:28:55] Advaita Naidoo: Unfortunately, that is the truth. I think for the most part, what we do is much more about building a community and including those active job seekers in our community. We connect the candidates in the course of a search who may not be actively seeking new roles, but who are open to opportunities when they come along and that’s great.

And by including all of these passive and active job seekers in our community, we are able to provide access to resources like our email newsletters, our webinars, really keep them informed about industry trends, potential job openings, if and when they arise, and it helps them stay engaged and importantly, prepared for future job opportunities, because the type of content that we provide, makes sure that they stay top of their game when it comes to interview skills or negotiating salaries.

[00:29:43] Debbie Goodman: So candidates, job seekers, we do love you and we do want you to engage with us and we will absolutely respond to every single resume and email that we receive. We just may not have the capacity to act on it immediately. And so that is one of the messages that I do want to put out in the market is that we have got our limitations in terms of how far we can go in terms of finding me a job.

[00:30:13] Advaita Naidoo: Also, don’t be afraid to follow up every now and again, update your CV.

[00:30:16] Debbie Goodman: Yes and when you follow up, remember to follow up and then attach your resume again, because yes, everything goes into our records and our database and everything, but send the CV with when you do the follow up and keep doing that. You won’t be a pain in the ass. It’s totally fine. And I really do have a lot of empathy and a lot of love for candidates who’re, you know, in the position of wanting to look for a new job, so if you don’t get an opportunity to meet with us immediately, know that it’s, we’re not ignoring you, it’s just the way that the day works.

Okay. Lastly, Mythbuster number seven, how many times have you been in a social gathering when people say to you, so what do you do? And you say, well, I run an executive search firm. I’m a headhunter. And they look at you with absolute like scorn and disgust. And they say, oh, so you steal people. Has that ever happened to you?

[00:31:12] Advaita Naidoo: It has, and not only has that happened in a social situation, I’ve had CEOs of companies call me to say, please stop stealing my people. And to those people, I say, you know what? Companies don’t own candidates. People have agency. They are not commodities. So, if they are open to taking a call from a headhunter, that means there’s something about your value proposition, Mr CEO, that’s not quite right for them anymore.

[00:31:39] Debbie Goodman: I would add to that. I’ve also received those calls and then I turn that around and I will always say to miss or mister or non-binary CEO. I will say to them, okay. So does that mean that if I have the most amazing career opportunity for a top role that I shouldn’t approach you? And all of a sudden things go silent.

So that’s my rebuttal to those. I must say those calls happen infrequently, but we don’t steal people. People have got minds of their own. It’s so fricking hard to get somebody to move from point A to point B and we do it with such a lot of thought and consideration and respect for their careers. And so no, we are not people stealers. We are not poachers. We are headhunters who really take this whole process of finding great leaders for amazing companies to create these extraordinary workplaces where people can have incredible work life experiences. So I’m going to end on that. We’ve busted all the myths.

This has been super fun, Advaita. Bye now.