Networking for Introverts with Helen Nicholson, CEO of The Networking Company

[00:00:00] Debbie Goodman: Welcome to On Work and Revolution, where we talk about what’s shaking up in the world of work. I’m your host, Debbie Goodman. I’m CEO of Jack Hammer Global, a global group of executive search, fractional talent, and leadership coaching companies. We help companies find game changing leaders for their hard to fill roles.

So feel free to reach out if you’re wondering how on earth you’re going to find the right fit for a key role in your leadership team. My main mission With all of my work is to help companies and leaders to create amazing workplaces where people and ideas flourish. So today I am super, super duper thrilled to have Helen Nicholson as our guest for the second time.

She’s just that fabulous. Helen is known as The Networking Queen. She’s the founder of The Networking Company, which helps people reach their full potential. She’s an international speaker. She’s published three bestselling books and as of last week, she’s just published her fourth, which I’m sure will also hit the bestseller list. It’s called Networking for Introverts. And that is what we’re going to be talking about today. So welcome Helen.

[00:01:13] Helen Nicholson: It’s wonderful to be here. 

[00:01:16] Debbie Goodman: Okay. Book four. Wow. So, each book is just a labour of love. I mean, for me, it’s like more kind of love hate actually. Um, why this book? Why Networking for Introverts?

[00:01:30] Helen Nicholson: So I run a leadership training business and have for the last 20 years. And I’ve always had a hunch that introverts were actually better networkers than extroverts. And I decided to put that to the test in the last four years. And I also think the world has become more introverted since COVID as kind of a double whammy. So, you know, because if you look at some of the top networking skills, such as listening and following up, those are actually introvert superpowers. And I noticed a lot of our delegates, especially people kind of in financial services and more analytical roles, I noticed the strain they were taking in their careers. They would come and chat to me and they’d say, you know, I feel like I’m not being heard. I feel like my career is going around and around in circles. My contributions are not valued in an extrovert culture. And I think the corporate world is constructed around that. So I decided to start a research project. I interviewed 253 introverts over the last couple of years. In focus groups and individuals. And I put that kind of hunch that I had to the test. Are introverts better networkers than extroverts? And I found out that there are, if they get certain things, right. Those kinds of things are things like telling better stories, building their personal brand more intentionally, and they can build a network one coffee at a time, that doesn’t have to be done at big conferences and huge events. 

[00:02:59] Debbie Goodman: Okay, we’re going to dig into all of that detail in a bit. what are the key themes of the book at sort of like high level, for somebody who’s going, Oh my God, this sounds like it could be perfect for me. What do you cover?

[00:03:13] Helen Nicholson: So 60% of the book is around your personal brand because personal branding is the why and networking is the how. And you know, it’s actually quite easy for people to learn how to break into conversations, how to do good small talk, how to do an elevator pitch. So, those are very tangible tools, which we do cover, but I think the more interesting part is understanding your secret sauce.

You know, two people who are in the same job at the same company, but they have a different personal brand. And I believe when you really get in touch with what your secret sauce of you is, then that’s when you actually get the purpose that you were put on this earth to fulfil, and also the importance of packaging your value, because if you don’t package your value, then you become, you know, the best kept secret in your organization and your true talents are not seen and not recognized. And I think that that’s a huge pity. 

[00:04:15] Debbie Goodman: Indeed, I think you used the word, it’s actually kind of easy to do small talk and it’s kind of easy to break into conversation. I find that hugely difficult.

[00:04:24] Helen Nicholson: Well, once you have the techniques, then it’s, it’s easy. 

[00:04:29] Debbie Goodman: So listeners, we’re going to get into those techniques in a bit. Just hang in there. I know you’re dying to hear how you can break into your next conversation with strangers, aren’t you?

Um, so, you also mentioned that you uncovered or discovered some more neuroscience about being an introvert. Share a little more about that.

[00:04:51] Helen Nicholson: This was really fascinating for me is to realize that the brains of introverts and extroverts are different. It’s actually not a choice to be an introvert and extrovert. The neuroscience is different. And I think that that was a big epiphany because it gives you a lot of compassion and insight into how, you know, different people function.

So introverts have got more dopamine receptors in their brain. So dopamine is obviously your happiness, chemical in your brain. That’s why, every time someone likes or shares a social media post of yours, you get a little dopamine hit or a little rush. And, and we like dopamine and it keeps us coming back for more.

And that’s why we get addicted to social media. But bearing in mind that introverts have got more of those dopamine receptors, that means when they go to an event, then they don’t actually need that much stimulation to fill up their dopamine tank. So I was actually busy researching this last year and my husband and I went to a party and he’s an introvert and I’m an extrovert. And I could see that his social batteries, his dopamine levels were kind of nearing their peak fill capacity within the first hour of arriving at the party. And he said to me, I’ve had enough. I’m going home. And I said, okay, whereas before I would have been annoyed with him, but now I had insight into the fact that he actually, his dopamine was just full.

And whereas me as the extrovert. Extroverts have got less dopamine receptors, and that means that they actually need more stimulation. So I stayed at the party for an extra three hours because I needed extra stimulation to get my dopamine up to the same level as his was within the first hour. And I think that that was a real epiphany because that gives great insight into, how extroverts and introverts roll.

[00:06:42] Debbie Goodman: Um, that would make sense. I was a little confused at the beginning when you said, um, introverts have more. But now that presents the really solid rationale around why particularly me, I’m probably ambivert, but certainly the idea of going to a party where I don’t know people or a networking event or a conference, it’s just like, it really fills me with absolute trepidation. And after a short while, I am done done. Um, so it’s definitely, I mean, the idea of spending an extra three hours, I’m definitely in your husband’s camp. I’m heading for the first bus home.

[00:07:21] Helen Nicholson: I mean, I quote you in the book, Debbie, because I think that you have a great strategy because you are a very successful introvert and, or ambivert. And you, when I interviewed you, you said you set yourself a target of meeting two new people at an event. And I think that that’s a great strategy because you can do that. You can do that in an hour. And then if you’d really listen to them and you follow up afterwards, then in some ways that can be more valuable than an extrovert flirting around, kind of air kissing people and doing that to 10 people, but not really listening or connecting meaningfully with them. And they’re not following up afterwards. So in other words, you make your two count. 

[00:08:03] Debbie Goodman: Yes, another additional layer to that because I dislike the, sort of the need to randomly flit around at any kind of event, is for conferences. What I do is ahead of time, I actually make contact via email with the people that I would like to engage with. And so there’s already a little bit of, um, ice that is broken before I even arrive at, um, at the event. And I compared two different conferences that I attended over the last few months. The one I’d done a ton of prep, I’d done that sort of early outreach with email. And then when I got to the conference, I didn’t have set meetings, but had a general sense of where people would be. And then it was just the most fun, actually, conference that I’ve been to in ages, because I’d done the work that I needed to do so that it didn’t feel horrifying, um, to arrive somewhere and need to sort of approach strangers. Um, and then I went to another one two weeks ago, and I hadn’t done all of that prep and I felt that same feeling of, Oh my God, I don’t know anybody now I’ve got to like find people to talk to and I’m desperate for the whole experience to be over as quickly as possible.

So, just to add that to the tips and tricks, which we’ll get to, a little bit later in the conversation. Part of the book as well, um, you’re trying to cultivate an appreciation for both the introvert themselves to understand themselves better, but also for people around them to understand how to be with introverts, how to nurture them in a team, how to manage them better and then what the actual strengths of an introvert are so, you mentioned that, introverts have sort of a pinball brain, style of thinking. Go into that a little more.

[00:09:55] Helen Nicholson: Yeah, if you have ever played old fashioned pinball, you know, on those arcade games, you would remember that the ball kind of pings around on the board and a very similar process happens in our brain when we hear a stimulation or we see something. So whenever your brain receives a message, it goes through a kind of pinball process. But the difference between introverts and extroverts is the time in which that happens. So an extrovert will hear a stimulation or someone says something to them, and it’ll go ding ding ding ding ding, kind of through all the different centres of their brain, and then often they will immediately have a thought, and then they will say it. And that’s why extroverts are often seen as quick thinkers. in meetings or, you know, at events, whereas the introvert here is the same stimulation and that same process happens, but it happens a lot more slowly. So it’ll go ding, ding, ding, ding. And that’s why in my research, a lot of the introverts had said to me, one of the things they find so frustrating is that they often think of the clever thing to say, After the meeting is over, or when they’re in the car on the way home from the event. And I think that that is an important realization for extrovert leaders who’ve got introverts in their teams to realize, because often, you know, because that introvert took a longer time to think about the issue or the stimulation is often the response can be more robust. Then the so called quick thinking extrovert, because it’s been deeper, in terms of, and there’s been more analysis in terms of their thought process.

So I think it’s very important then to make sure that you circle back, after a meeting, before the next meeting, you know, start saying to the introvert, did you have any further thoughts about that or what are you, you know, asking open ended questions to introverts and really listening to their response and not speaking over them is a very good leadership trait in order to really get introverts to flourish in teams. 

[00:12:02] Debbie Goodman: I have one deep introvert in my team and she actually schooled me many years ago on, and very fortunately she did this because I would get so frustrated. I’d And she would, I knew she had something to say. She has so much to contribute. She’s phenomenal at what she does, but she would not volunteer. And so I then started cultivating a very annoying habit, actually, of asking her on the spot to respond to something that I just didn’t You know, just put out there right then and there in the meeting without any preparation. And after a couple of times of doing this, um, she would say to me, listen, I’m an introvert. I dislike intensely being put on the spot like that. I would like the time to think about it and I will have something to say, but I need a little bit more time to, um, to actually think and draw, think about the, how I want to respond. And so if you want to get, okay. More out of me, if you want to get better, um, responses out of me, I need that extra preparation time or call on me at the end of the, of the round. And I really appreciated that. I didn’t realize at all how she was squirming, how bad she felt in the meeting.

[00:13:18] Helen Nicholson: Well, her pinball brain was still busy processing. You know, so when you put an introvert on the spot, their thoughts are not, their thought process hasn’t finished yet. So, you know, and that’s why they don’t like it. And it actually makes them very anxious. To be put on the spot like that. 

[00:13:34] Debbie Goodman: Absolutely. Um, however, we do live in a society that somehow does, revere the quick thinker talker people who take up the airtime. and I see this as well in interviews. where, somebody who’s got a naturally extroverted style, they’re going to be more relaxed. They’re going to be more sort of open, warm, friendly, et cetera.

They’re certainly going to make a first impression that has kind of higher personal impact in those first few minutes of an interview and I think introverts struggle sometimes with, you know, I think for an interviewer, who’s not attuned to the fact that there’s a difference in style and that if you’re engaging with an introvert, that does not mean in any way that they are less than, but they’re just going to need a different approach in that interview.

 You mentioned that introverts have actually got better developed EQ, empathy. Say more about that because I think that that’s not necessarily, what rises to the fore when leaders or interviewers are engaging with introverts who they don’t necessarily know well.

[00:14:43] Helen Nicholson: Yeah. I think, you know, one of the tips that I gave to introverts in the book about, and it’s very similar to the tip that you’ve actually already used when you go to events is to prep more and prep more deeply for an interview or a meeting because to almost circumvent that pinball brain, you have an idea of the kind of questions that are going to come up or the issues in a meeting and the more better prepared that gives them confidence and then they are able to speak. Because, you know, to our earlier point, they don’t like to be put on the spot, makes them anxious. And then it actually, you don’t get the best version of them. I think one of the big misconceptions is that introverts are shy. Introverts can be very verbal about things they are passionate about and I encourage them in interviews and meetings to speak about those things that they are passionate about, because then immediately you can actually see the light literally go on in their eyes and they start to be very passionate about whatever that issue is. And I always said to them, if you get to an end of a discussion or a meeting or an interview and you haven’t unleashed your passion, then, you’re actually doing yourself a disservice.

[00:15:59] Debbie Goodman: I think that’s a really important distinction to make. Introversion versus shyness. Certainly they can coexist, but I am not a shy person at all. I’m not shy. I’m very confident. And I think people confuse that with extroversion. I am a confident, um, introvert.

[00:16:19] Helen Nicholson: And there are many of you out there. I interviewed many of you, but it’s that understanding, you know, a lot of the work that we do is with young talent so it’s twenties, thirties, and one of the most astounding things in my research was around people’s strengths because your best personal brand, like Debbie, you’ve had some insight as to who you are and what you do, but that often only happens in our forties and people actually really want to, fast track that process. And the first thing that I always say, when you’re developing your personal brand is to lean into your strengths. And Marcus Buckingham through, um, his research did a very interesting study recently where he said that Gen Y’s and Gen Z’s, 73 percent of them thought that they will be successful in their career if they fix their weaknesses. Now I know, and you know, as people who are involved in kind of exploring people’s potential, that that is fundamentally a very bad strategy. So, your best brand will be around you leaning into your natural strengths, whereas they actually believe they’ve got to fix a whole lot of their weaknesses. And that’s what also, that’s why, what you realize why a lot of them are so anxious. Is because they’re in a permanent state of kind of anxiety about not being good enough. You’ve got the social media part that is happening and then you’ve got this, an awareness of how powerful your natural strengths are.

And that was one of the contributing reasons why I wrote the book, because I wanted people to realize that they have natural strengths and if they package in a way that is authentic to who they are, then they are going to be unbelievably successful. 

[00:18:03] Debbie Goodman: Okay. So for introverts to shift their own lens on themselves, you’re saying lean into your strengths as opposed to try to fix your weaknesses, or sort of recognize your value, and then I heard you say package your value, but what do you actually mean by that?

[00:18:22] Helen Nicholson: So packaging of value means first of all, realizing what your strengths are. And then how are you communicating that? Because I find that people often think, their bosses are mind readers because you’ve got to communicate your achievements. And one of the recommendations I give is to keep a kind of a note on your phone, kind of wherever you keep your notes. And whenever someone sends you an email or congratulates you about some kind of achievement, or it gives you a compliment, make a note of those, just keep a record. Because often we get, I think performance appraisals generally happen, depending on your organization, every six months or every year, and that’s not enough because, the nature of corporate is often, it’s about, pointing out people’s development areas. Packaging your value ultimately comes from knowing what you’re good at and trying to align your career as closely as possible to that. I mean, we, we of course have to do things you don’t like, but I think it should be a kind of a 60, 40 percent ratio, 60 percent of you in that career sweet spot zone and packaging that value, communicating it to your stakeholders on a regular basis, and then 40 percent should be spent in your weakness. 

[00:19:37] Debbie Goodman: Okay. Um, you also said something early on in the, this conversation around building your network one person at a time. So, let’s talk about that because the idea of networking as a whole, as a generic term, puts the fear of God into most introverts. So talk about that. Build your network one person at a time. What does that look like for an introvert?

[00:20:02] Helen Nicholson: So if you had one or two intentional coffees with people either, and I would choose one internally in your organization and one person outside your organization, and you did that deliberately, mindfully, and intentionally for a year, you would have a network that cooks on gas. The problem is people are so kind of, they’ve got tunnel vision and being so involved in their work that they haven’t lifted their head to think about what is their future, what’s their next step in their career. And often your network will enable you to transition into different roles, into different industries, and especially in your early days, because otherwise your networks become very linear and you’re just surrounded by clones of you.

Because your network is only powerful if it’s diverse and you know, I always encourage people to have coffees with people who are older than you, who are in different industries, who are different colours as you, different genders, because otherwise it, that clone of you is not a powerful network and it can be done one coffee or lunch at a time and, and introverts generally are very comfortable with that. It’s just about, you know, sending the WhatsApp, sending the email request and asking for a meeting and making sure you also offer value. 

[00:21:20] Debbie Goodman: Right. So, we’ve got some, key ideas here to lean into strength, to package your value. And I imagine if that’s an exercise that feels a bit daunting, overwhelming, then doing that with a coach or a partner or a friend could really be helpful. And then that intentionality and you’ve spoken about intentionality partly around building a network, but also about where to place one’s energy.

If you know yourself, then if you know that you’ve got, I know, for example, that I’ve got only a limited amount of time at a big event, a party or a conference, I know I’m definitely not going to be the person who’s the last at the bar. In fact, I probably won’t even get there. Um, so I want to make hay while the sun shines and do my thing in the sort of in the first hour or two, because then I’m going to run out of steam for sure.

That’s sort of for me, uh, an intentionality around how to use my energy and time well. What’s another good example?

[00:22:21] Helen Nicholson: Yeah, I mean, I think that what I’ve noticed is a lot of introverts confessed to me when they go to an event, then they’ll spend that first hour with people that they know, and that is not a good strategy, because if you realize that your battery is limited, then as you arrive, my biggest advice is to go and find those two people.

So you’ve actually crossed them off the list and then you can go and chat to people you don’t know, that you already know. So, so you’ve actually achieved your goal quickly. And, you also have more interesting conversations when people are kind of waiting around for drinks. I do, one of the pieces of advice I give to introverts is arrive early at functions.

So don’t, because then there are less people around and they’re kind of people at the coffee queue or at the bar and that feels more manageable. So you know, you can meet your two people as everyone is only arriving and you could already leave by then. 

[00:23:14] Debbie Goodman: Yes, another strategy and we’ll talk quickly about some tips and tactics for networking. A newer one that I’ve realized is when I’m standing in line for coffee, cause I’m always standing in line for coffee is, I make sure I don’t have my AirPods in. I’m not looking at my phone and I’m really trying to just be open to possibly having an incidental chat with the person in front or behind me. If you’re myopic and you’re doing your best to become invisible for sure, nobody’s going to want to talk to you. So that’s another thing that I’ve become quite intentional about. I end up having like really, easy fun chats with people. You know, people that are kind of random, but sometimes they turn out to be, really great. You had a couple of other fabulous, techniques and tips. talk to me about the magic of three.

[00:24:01] Helen Nicholson: So just before that, building on from your point is, you know, there’s a wonderful Oprah and Gail story. I don’t know if you remember the Oprah show many years ago when Gail, they gave away all those cars. And Gail met the manager or the MD of General Motors. Um, he was sitting next to her on a plane. And I always use plane networking because you, you often meet really interesting people on a plane. And to me, the plane networking etiquette is to chat while you eating. You know, if there’s a snack, so just make sure you find out who this person is. And, you know, cause Gail always says, Oprah’s friend that if she hadn’t have had that conversation with the general manager of General Motors, that giveaway would never have happened. And a lot of people associate that with the Oprah show.

And you’ll put your rule of three is don’t break into a group of two or a group of four. Three is the magic number because two you’re always interrupting them and four is actually too big. So what I advocate at an event is go and stand with your glass or your coffee next to a group of three people. And overhear what they’re chatting about, and this is really important because if you, there’s no synergy, then rather move on to another group of three, they’re not even noticing you, they’re busy chatting. And then if you find that there’s synergy, then you make your move. So you’ve got your glass or your coffee in your hand, you make eye contact with the speaker.

The person who’s doing the speaking at that time, and because it’s a kind of cocktail conference type set up, there’s an expectation that people are going to flow in and out of the conversation. I’ve been doing this for 18 years and no one has ever, um, it kind of excluded me from a conversation and I’ve never had negative feedback.

It’s just about taking that step and then you smile, kind of nod, affirmative body language. And then you join the conversation because you’ve already, you’ve heard what they’re chatting about so there is synergy. You know, if you just walk into a conversation, then often that’s where people get a bit tongue tied because they haven’t been strategic about it.

[00:26:01] Debbie Goodman: Right. Okay. So that’s, again, the intentionality and the strategy. I never thought about doing a little bit of eavesdropping first before deciding to join, otherwise you can get into very boring conversations. If you don’t do that, you have nothing in common with these people. Right. Okay. Magic of three, another brilliant tip. Um, and then while we’re just reviewing my strategy, which is, um, I set myself a goal of X number of people that I intend to meet. It’s, at an event, sometimes it’s a little more ambitious than two. Um, sometimes it’s I’ve in the last little while I’ve actually impressed myself. And then it definitely becomes easier and easier. You spoke about a small talk technique. Please tell me about this. I’m so terrible at small talk.

[00:26:51] Helen Nicholson: So every time you go into an event, I want you to think of rowing because the small talk technique is called, or OAR observe, ask, reveal. And the secret sauce of this, Susan Rowan, who’s a big networking expert, she coined the term and the reveal is where the secret sauce happens. So I’ll give you an example.

So I was at an event at the stock exchange recently. So I observed what was going on. it was at the bar. And I said to the sky, I seem to be the only female that’s here because I was. I then asked him a question. I said, how long have you been investing for? And then in the reveal, I said, I’m a novice investor. This is the first time I’ve been to an event like this. Now that reveal where you reveal something about yourself that makes you vulnerable, that doesn’t make you come across as a know it all. It obviously has to be true. and sometimes you have to do observe, ask, reveal two or three times to get the conversation going.

Women often will do it with each other. It’s. Around, you know, I’ll observe something about yourself. I love your hair. You ask your question, where do you have your hair done? And then I’ll reveal I’m having a bad hair day. So a woman will often do it, but then you need to follow that up with a more meaningful business one that actually opens up the conversation.

And as soon as you do that reveal, whether it’s an introvert or an extrovert, that immediately. Um, kind of just makes you human and opens up the conversation. 

[00:28:15] Debbie Goodman: Okay. So that may require a little bit of thinking or observe, ask, reveal. I’m going to really try that out. 

[00:28:25] Helen Nicholson: Um, and you’ve got to be talking about a couple of them as you’re walking into an event. I’ve used it. Yes. And it really, the more prepared you are, the better it comes across. 

[00:28:35] Debbie Goodman: Yes. Yes. I must say my spectacles have always been an easy, way for other people to connect with me. today, both you and I are wearing our same spectacles. Um, but it’s a way for people to say, Oh, I love your glasses.

And, um, and then we end up having a silly small talk chat about, uh, about spectacles and how my eyesight’s deteriorating and all those lovely things. But, um, but that’s a, yeah, I mean, now that I, now that I’m thinking about it, I probably do that a little more automatically than I’m giving credence to. So, wow, Helen, a lot here for any introvert that’s listening as well as extroverted leaders or leaders in general or interviewers of introverts or partners, friends, colleagues of introverts. I hope this has been very useful all around. How can people get access to your book? 

[00:29:28] Helen Nicholson: So it is available on Amazon, Kindle, right now and, yeah, I look forward to hearing everyone’s feedback.

[00:29:35] Debbie Goodman: Okay. So introverts, may you go forth and be wonderfully comfortable in, formerly uncomfortable situations. And, uh, Helen, thank you again for listening. Just dropping so many pearls of wisdom on this amazing topic. I hope you’re, I’ve no doubt the book’s going to just fly off the shelves and be another bestseller.

Thank you so much. Thank you.