Beyond the Gen Z Backlash – Untangling Workplace Misunderstandings to Build Better Leadership Pipelines

Debbie: [00:00:00] Hello everyone, and welcome to On Work and Revolution, I’m your host, Debbie Goodman. I’m CEO of Jack Hammer Global, which is Africa’s largest executive search boutique. We operate in 24 countries across the continent. I’m also a CEO coach. I work with top leaders around the world. And in everything I do, my goal is pretty simple, to help companies and leaders create amazing workplaces.

We’re talking about Gen Z, but what specifically are we talking about and, and why is it so topical right now? Um, because Gen Z, the age demographic, according to whatever the research says, is somewhere between the ages of 14 years and 29 years of age now. but a lot of what we’re seeing and why it’s such a hot topic, I think, is because a sub-segment of that is the very current early, it’s like the entry-level workers [00:01:00] right now who are in the just post-graduating.

They would be in the 20, 21, 22, 23 years age range. And essentially every group, whether it’s been Millennials or Gen Zs or whatever it is, they’re always not work ready. I mean, that’s not, that’s not new.

Advaita: not a new thing, and I think it’s… There’s a couple of things attached to that, though. there’s this cultural shorthand where we get to say, “Oh, kids these days, they’re just not ready for the things that we were ready for.” But I think a lot of the time the generation that comes before is probably benchmarking against the most flattering memory of themselves at that age, and thinking about all the things that they had to do to get ready.

And so it’s easy to say, “These kids aren’t ready.” But I think the additional thing that we’re overlooking is that this generation is having their formative work years play out on social media, where people have just so much more access. It’s an amplified access, and it’s a [00:02:00] mouthpiece and a willingness to post about these things, that they’re experiencing in the workplace.

So I think, you know, millennials and boomers, if they’re still in the workforce, it’s very easy to mouth off to a bigger audience about the problems they’re experiencing.

Debbie: Yeah. ‘Cause it does feel like, there’s an amplification right now. I mean, everywhere I look, I feel like everybody’s complaining about Gen Z, and I feel kind of sorry for them, firstly because my kids are in that age range. first I think the fact is that there has been no generation that has come out of either high school or college and has been entirely ready for the workforce.

I mean, if you think back to your first job, my first job, my goodness, um, I didn’t know what the hell I was doing. I had an entire law degree and was completely incapable of doing absolutely anything at all. so that’s the first step, the first kind of fact that I think we need to say is, high school a- and college does not, university does not prepare you for an actual workplace.

Advaita: And nor should it.

Nor should it because that’s where you learn the theory and you go to work to learn the practical things.

Debbie: yes, [00:03:00] I think there seems to be sort of like less tolerance, by the generations who are already in the workplace for this emerging group of, early work entrants. And I think that this current cohort is, I think they are at a disadvantage. I think the one thing that we can also say as another, trend fact, what we’re seeing is that because a lot of these, a, a lot of this age, group spent their middle school, high school, perhaps college years during COVID, during lockdown, during this era in which everybody shifted from in-person reality into digital engagement, is that they gained something, but they also lost something and, they lost the ability to communicate in person.

And then they also entered into an era of friction-free engagement with access to purchasing things and communicating with people. It was this, lack of friction. And so they [00:04:00] seem to have less tolerance for interactions that have a measure of conflict, that have some friction, that require them to, accept some kind of rejection or criticism.

 They seem to be more sensitive to that. And so I think that is where more of the complaints are arising.

Advaita: So right. So at that point, at that juncture, in an effort to prevent more of, these types of personalities entering the workforce, I do have to call out parents in this. there is a generation of parents, and look, uh, my kids are young, and I think that there is an urge to want to remove friction from their lives.

So, you know, we have things called helicopter parents, parents who hover over their kids and want to stay as close as possible to all the decisioning and all the factors that affect their children, and that’s one type of parenting. And then there’s this new generation of parents who are called snowplow or lawnmower parents who want to remove the friction from their children’s lives.

They get in the front and take the obstacles out of their way. And so their [00:05:00] kids don’t learn the problem-solving. They don’t come up against that friction that is part of everyday life. Um, and a very real example is the parents who send job applications on behalf of their children, who call in sick for them because their kid can’t pick up the phone or email the manager themselves.

Debbie: Goodness. yeah, we hear stories about that all the time, and we also experience that firsthand when we have a parent sending in a CV of their not young… I mean, we’re talking about a, a college graduate, to ask us to help their kid with the job search process. I mean, that’s, that is definitely, that’s taking it things a step too far.

And we are reading about this, we’re hearing that. and perhaps it was because, a lot of these kids, they grew up through adolescence during COVID years, which were just so bizarre and so unusual, and so we have this overbearingness of parents to try and [00:06:00] help them in some way when they were struggling.

We saw mental health becoming, you know, a real issue, and still is. on the one hand, I really want to have a level of empathy for this generation because they have, they’re entering a work environment that is very different from any other, at an accelerated pace.

 I think they’re also entering the workplace when certain ideas such as loyalty, have been blown out the water for them because that’s another complaint that we hear, where, the older generation are saying, “These kids, they have no loyalty. They like, where’s their willingness to stick it through, to sacrifice, to give their lives to their jobs?”

And there are two elements to that. The first is this idea of loyalty. A lot of these kids grew up, seeing their parents in workplaces where they were being laid off, where they were being retrenched, where there’s certainly the idea of a job for life is, you know, that’s not even part of their consciousness.

But even the [00:07:00] idea that there would be a two-way engagement between a company that would show loyalty and vice versa, their exposure was that that was absolutely not their reality for their parents. And they’re seeing it now when they’re entering the workplace, that that is the brutal truth, is that nobody owes anybody anything.

And I think that this idea that a young person should have a level of automatic in-baked loyalty is a bit of a, it’s an over expectation.

Advaita: I agree, because if there are expectations, the expectations should work both ways. nobody enters a job with an expectation of a one-way door, and I think that is, it’s probably inappropriate in this day and age. And I think there is also a sense of, you know, over the last decade or so, and certainly since COVID, a lot of companies have spent time building workplace culture or cultivated a version of work that’s been built on purpose and belonging and [00:08:00] transparency.

You know, it comes up in the job ads, on the websites, in the value statements. And Gen Z, for better or worse, has taken that marketing at face value. And when it doesn’t show up in the every day, and the expectation is, yes, we have wellbeing and we have a great culture, but only to a certain extent, and we expect you to deliver under these conditions, and we’re not going to necessarily uphold our end of the bargain, there is a cognitive dissonance there, and I can appreciate that they don’t deliver that same degree of loyalty that the company expects.

Debbie: Yeah, I think that’s also, once again, quite reasonable. There’s been a lot more emphasis by organizations in order to talk about and promote their culture, to really drive the idea that their organizations would be this great place to work. And then these kids, sorry to sound ageist about it, but they’re, you know, young professionals, they come into the workplace and they go, “Huh?

This is… There’s no delivery here. You promised X. You promised a culture of transparency and integrity and, and belonging and, work-life balance, and there’s none of that.” And so they are questioning what it means to be in the workplace and how much of their lives to sacrifice. I mean, I’m just trying to think back to my first job in a formal workplace.

 and I remember working these 18-hour days. I was just so… Well, first of all, I was, I was very ambitious. I knew nothing, so I needed to spend the time. I also, I didn’t have kids, so it’s like I could spend the time, and I think I probably came from a mindset and a generation where that was okay, that was expected.

 I think fewer people these days are willing to do that, not because they lack in ambition, but because they’re also questioning at what sacrifice. I mean, I look back at that and go, “Man, I gave up a lot.”

Advaita: Yeah, I, I think that is, uh, the actual nail on the head there, because the previous generations also resented that sort of suffering that came in the form of long hours, and especially the opaque promotion decisions and, you know, managers who weren’t quite explaining what was expected, et cetera, et cetera.

But they tolerated it because implicitly they knew that they would eventually be rewarded with security and progression, and that didn’t happen for everyone, obviously. But this generation is asking, “What’s the trade-off that I need to make, and is it guaranteed? And if it’s not, why put in the effort?”

Debbie: Yeah. I mean, listen, once again, there certainly are enough very ambitious, your top 5%, they’re always gonna be there, and I don’t think that the, the conversation is really around that top 5 to 10% of performers. There are always gonna be high achievers. There are always gonna be shining the light that you’re not gonna need to motivate them.

You’re not gonna need to question, their drive to achieve. similarly, the bottom 5% is always going to take the piss. They are always going to try to do the least, and you have them in every [00:11:00] workplace. I think it’s this, like, middle group where the question is, how do we get these, young professionals to, be workplace ready, to know what, you know, to actually add value, and how do we motivate them?

 And I think that the idea that they’re something to be resisted or rejected or beaten down, I mean, that’s just completely, the wrong approach. I also think that there’s possibly something around the fact that for many young professionals coming into the workplace right now, they’re almost competing against AI.

So you have a manager or an expert in their field who has the toss-up of going, “Do I train this person and keep redlining the documents that they provide for me and send it back and risk the fact that they’re gonna get upset with me, they’re gonna feel like they’re being criticized.

I’m gonna have to deal with all the emotional baggage that goes with this exchange? or do I just get an AI to do it? Because man, that’s gonna take me quicker, faster, and there’s gonna be no moaning.” And I think that that’s another reason why we’re starting to hear right now a lot of the, this Gen Z inefficiency that has emerged and seems to be a hot topic right

Advaita: I completely agree, but this is going to be, if we take the bigger picture, longer term view, this is gonna be to an organization’s detriment because this cohort, they are the leadership pipeline, so we can’t wait for them to naturally age into some kind of better form of employee because they can only be trained in order to get there.

So, any managers who are relying and outsourcing that, those kinds of early stage processes now, they’re doing it for their own convenience and really not with a holistic company wellbeing in mind.

Debbie: Yeah, that’s a bigger conversation and a, a slightly different one, but I think it’s relevant to the why are we hearing so much about Gen Z now? In fact, I almost came to the session bringing my iced latte, … Because for some reason that’s trending all over the show.

Okay, so we can point to why we think this is, this is a- arising now. the conversation around Gen Z is, is not new. they’ve been in the workplace for a while already, and they’re still gonna be in the workplace for a while, and I really wanna take their side because I think some of it is, fair and some of it is just, not really justified and is lacking in insight and empathy.

But what do we wanna say to managers, to the people in organizations who are sort of wringing their, hands in despair around what to do? I mean, what, what advice do we want to give?

Advaita: Are they pearl clutching? Are they clutching their pearls and thinking, “Oh, you know, woe is me!” Yeah.

Debbie: They might be doing that or, you know, just like stomping their hot coffee on the table.

So what do we wanna say to people in the workplace who, are feeling somewhat aggrieved to have to deal with this [00:14:00] cohort of people who does not, seemingly not able to do what they need them to do, or is just having a different attitude about what it means to be in the workplace?

What do we wanna… What, what advice do you wanna give, oh Holy Grail?

Advaita: For the older employees, the managers and the leaders, they have to appreciate that this share of the workforce is going to grow every year. They’re not going anywhere. You can’t wait for them to get older and therefore just learn, the codes of behaviour that they expect. the codes of behaviour are going to change and organizations need to adapt.

So they need to figure out how to make this multi-generational teamwork and rely on older employees for institutional knowledge, discernment. And the younger ones do bring fresh instincts and new skills, and they can actually coexist fairly peacefully. I think the one thing that always strikes me about, millennials and boomers to a certain extent,

Debbie: the Gen Xers? We’re in between.

Advaita: The Gen Xers.

Debbie: in between the two.

Advaita: There’s this belief that I had it hard, so they should too. You know? [00:15:00] Like, hardship is some kind of training and rite of passage. and in a lot of ways, that was actually poor management that wasn’t audited properly. It wasn’t actually proper training. It wasn’t onboarding.

It was just a figure it out for yourself, and if you lost a few people along the way, it was kind of justified. Well, you know, they weren’t high performers anyway. But we appreciate so much more about diversity now. not just the visible diversity, but the way people process things, the way people learn.

And just because people process things differently doesn’t mean they are inferior in the workplace. So poor management needs to come out, and that hardship by training is part of poor management. and related, I think a lot of, older leaders tend to manage more by instruction and not by reasoning, and that doesn’t help anyone learn things.

And Gen Z wants to learn, why do we do it this way? And is there a way to improve on the way [00:16:00] it’s being done? And, you know, sometimes they just wanna make suggestions to say, “Let’s do things differently,” without understanding the reasoning. So it’s up to the older generations to explain why we do it this way, and perhaps there’s a better way that we can forge together, and that’s a really practical way, to go about doing things.

Debbie: Okay, so that’s on the part of the, the managers, the somewhat older generation, the either much older Gen Zs, Millennials, Gen Xs, and we’ve got Boomers in the workplace.

Um, what about, what advice do we want to give to the Gen Zs? Because they’ve got accountability too here. this is not the same as, you know, it’s not high school. They have accountabilities, and, they are competing against a workforce that is getting leaner and leaner everywhere. They’re gonna need to show up in ways that add value.

Advaita: So first is I think while older generations, tend to reward, or measure commitment by visibility and hours spent [00:17:00] rather than by output and reliability, and Gen Z tries to push back against that for more hybrid type of work or remote work, I think the first thing I wanna say is don’t underestimate the value of informal presence.

Because being close to a manager or leader gives you the type of access to conversations that happen after meetings. It helps you be visible. It, you know, you get to do the type of unglamorous work that lets you learn the ropes and learn by osmosis in a way that you’re absolutely not doing by working from home and just doing Teams meetings.

Debbie: I wanna double click there because, when I hear the younger generation, to find remote work or declining an opportunity because it’s not hybrid or remote, I wanna kinda slap them, and say, “Get a grip.” You are doing your entire career a disadvantage by staying away from the decision-making, from being in person where, A, you’re gonna get access to really so much more information, but you’re going to be able to progress, if not accelerate your learning and progress in not just the work you do, but within the organization itself.

 I think more and more organizations are, requiring their early stage workers, their entry level workers to be in person where possible, unless it’s a remote first or remote only organization, in which case even then, I think that, if, as a young professional entering the workplace, if I had a choice of being in person versus remote, I’d take in person every day.

Yes, it’s a schlep. Nobody likes commuting. Yes, you gotta get dressed in the morning and brush your teeth, but man, you’re gonna get access and information and growth and learning that you will not be able to get remotely. So that’s another tangent on this, but another

piece of advice.

Advaita: I think that’s probably the biggest piece of advice, and the most practical type of advice. I think the second bit is to learn to tolerate workplace friction. If you’ve grown up in an environment where the friction was removed for you, you actually have to, well, first get used to it, but, there’s this thing, that younger people are practicing now called friction maxing.

Friction maxing, they are deliberately inserting friction into their lives because in many ways, you know, a, a one-click purchase or, being able to order, something that’s going to be delivered to you immediately, it partly removes the joy of the accomplishment that comes at the end.

You know? it almost means you haven’t earned it as much. And when you have accomplished something with a fair amount of friction in order to accomplish that, it just feels better. It’s more of a reward. You’re chasing fewer dopamine highs because the quality of the dopamine high that came with the reward is better.

And so appreciate that a manager giving you feedback that isn’t great or somebody slowing you down because you have to wait for an email, that does- that’s not a bad thing. It means that you learn better workplace skills. The friction in your life [00:20:00] is increasing your, your learning potential, and the reward at the end of it is going to be so much better.

Debbie: Right. I also think that being able to tolerate, people who are different to you, being able to learn how to tolerate a jerk is just a life skill. we all… That’s one of those things, we all have to do that. I think that this younger generation is more hyper-alert to where working with a jerk versus working with somebody who’s actually emotionally abusive, the- where there’s a bit of a borderline.

I think, however, sometimes they take it a little too far. Once again, anything that is seen as a criticism or some kind of, negative feedback or, some kind of slight, the labels around, oh, you know, toxic, is a little too liberal. So once again, I wanna do a little workshop for all the young professionals on how to categorize toxic versus just general workplace, either, moderate dysfunction or, the general stuff that you’re elbowing against people.

 It’s not going to be a smooth ride. And so, that one can only learn in situ, as they say. for managers to expect that, professionals are gonna come, into the workplace and know how this all works, uh, that’s, that’s not it. That’s not real.

I do think that there is an expectation that, this generation should, however, be more ready. and I think overall, that is, a demand that is, unfair. and then on the other side, I think that the Gen Z-ers who are entering the workplace, who are there already, they actually need to, shape up and step into, this world of, workplace dynamics and friction that is going to be as much of a learning curve as their, career or degree, has been.

So learning for everybody. I’m keen to see how things evolve in this, narrative. feels like it’s a hot, it’s a hot topic right now.